The Orphic vegetarian lifestyle in ancient Greece, Frugivore civilizations unknown, and new perspectives on the “history” of the religious murder of nonhumans

Greek goddesses of revenge, the Erinyes, in a painting by Farangis “raise themselves in a threatening way over the meddling of war, the killing of nonhuman animals, the destruction of the forests and of the life within the waters, they observe life in the big cities.”

Three Snippets

The Orphic vegetarian lifestyle in ancient Greece, Frugivore civilizations unknown, and new perspectives on the “history” of the religious murder of nonhumans

“The importance placed on the next life encouraged Orphics and Christians alike to defer their pleasures in this one. Both groups sought to live a life of chastity and abstinence (the Orphics were vegetarians) that was incongruous with the society around them. It was also cause for surprise that both practiced friendship to strangers, not merely to people of their own race and creed, as the Greeks and Jews tended to do. But this was a natural conclusion from the principle that each person was in essence divine. Consequently Orphism was the first religion in Europe, and perhaps the first anywhere, to preach what we think of as “Christian” virtues, to promise an afterlife whose quality depended on their practice, and to institute mysteries as a foretaste of the soul’s future destiny. The Orphics had been the first philosophers of Greece and the spiritual ancestors of the Pythagorean and Platonic schools, renowned for asceticism and for belief in the immortality of the soul. Now, in the Orphic revival, they stamped their principles on the new religion. Through numerical coding of key words and phrases in the Greek (New) Testament, Christianity was linked with the Pythagorean tradition, in which music and number were the first principles of the universe.”

Joscelyn Godwin: The Orphic Mysteries (acc 20.09.2017, see also this link otherwise)

See also International Vegetarian Union (IVU) Info on Orphic communities.


Plato, The Laws, reference to civilizations that rejected or did not practice animal sacrifice:

Of course. [782c]

The custom of men sacrificing one another is, in fact, one that survives even now among many peoples; whereas amongst others we hear of how the opposite custom existed, when they were forbidden so much as to eat an ox, and their offerings to the gods consisted, not of animals, but of cakes of meal and grain steeped in honey, and other such bloodless sacrifices, and from flesh they abstained as though it were unholy to eat it or to stain with blood the altars of the gods; instead of that, those of us men who then existed lived what is called an “Orphic life,” keeping wholly to inanimate food and, [782d] contrariwise, abstaining wholly from things animate.

Certainly what you say is widely reported and easy to credit.

Someone might ask us— “For what purpose have you now said all this?”

A correct surmise, Stranger.

So I will try, if I can, Clinias, to explain the subject which comes next in order.

Say on.

I observe that with men all things depend on a threefold need and desire, wherein if they proceed rightly, [782e] the result is goodness, if badly, the opposite. Of these desires they possess those for food and drink as soon as they are born; and about the whole sphere of food every creature has an instinctive lust, and is full of craving, and quite deaf to any suggestion that they ought to do anything else than satisfy their tastes and desires for all such objects, and thus rid themselves entirely of all pain.

1 Or Persephone, daughter of the Earth-mother, Demeter. Triptolemus was a mythical hero of EIeusis, worshipped as the inventor and patron of agriculture.

Plato. Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vols. 10 & 11 translated by R.G. Bury. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1967 & 1968.


Animal sacrifice not central to Greek and Roman religious cults, thesis

“Jaś Elsner, whose paper I found the meatiest, so to speak, and most striking of the collection, shows that imagery of animal sacrifice on Roman monuments in many parts (but, importantly, not all) of the Roman world appears to be in decline from around 200 CE, being replaced by imagery related to “vegetarian” (here libation and incense burning) sacrifice. How to interpret this? An actual reflection of a change on the ground in sacrificial practice? A reflection of a change in ideology? If so, it would mean that animal sacrifice was in fact already in decline before the great Christian polemics against it, which seized on bloody sacrifice as a central image of all that was cruel and misguided about pagan practice. Elsner has grave suspicions that the modern theories that insist on this centrality of animal sacrifice are strongly influenced by the ideological claims of both Christian polemic and the official Roman reaction to Christianity and that we have been duped by this ancient propaganda into overrating the importance of animal sacrifice in actual practice and demoting other forms of offering such as libation and incense burning (see esp. 163; cf. Scheid 95).”

From: Christopher A. Faraone, F.S. Naiden (ed.), Greek and Roman Animal Sacrifice: Ancient Victims, Modern Observers. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2012. Pp. xiv, 209. ISBN 9781107011120. $95.00. Reviewed by Alexander Hollmann, University of Washington. (acc 28.06.2013)

Thoughts on an October day – 29 / 10 / 2011

Two comments of the non-ill-thinker

ill and vegan, it’s just ok
A: As a vegan you ought not to fall ill, because if you do, somebody might blame it on your diet.
B: Really?

money makes the values that represent the values of the human system in a “tangible” or “measurable” way
A: I think the monetary system feeds itself also from the demand / consumption pattern, the willingness of people to buy too much. The crux is, without buying power there won’t be any jobs. So either we buy and have jobs, or … what???
B: Something else is the crux, namely that the entire human system bases or an exploitative enmity towards the rest of nature.

fantasy / perspectives

reality / mutual concern

Methylcobalamin, I just copied and pasted some info and input about it, here:

Informative, check this source out first maybe on alternatives to cyanocobalamin:

Methylcobalamin & Adenosylcobalamin: (acc. 08-09-2017)


Cyanocobalamin is a well-studied, reliable, inexpensive form of vitamin B12. Nonetheless, many alternative health practitioners and supplement companies promote the co-enzyme forms of B12, methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin. Requirements for these forms have not been fully elucidated and common recommendations are for 1,000 µg/day.


There are four forms of vitamin B12, differentiated by the side group attached to the cobalamin molecule:

Adenosylcobalamin – AdoCbl
Cyanocobalamin – CNCbl
Hydroxocobalamin – HOCbl
Methylcobalamin – MeCbl
MeCbl and AdoCbl are the two forms of vitamin B12 that are co-enzymes: the body requires each of them for different reactions.

CNCbl is the form most commonly found in supplements and fortified foods. It is the most stable because the side group, cyanide, has the strongest attraction to the cobalamin molecule.

HOCbl is the form usually contained in B12 shots and the hydroxyl side group has the least attraction to the cobalamin molecule.

AdoCbl is technically 5′-deoxy-5′-adenosylcobalamin, and also known as dibencozide, cobamamide, and cobinamide.

The co-enzyme form of B12 supplements, AdoCbl and MeCbl, are sometimes promoted as being superior to CNCbl for two reasons:

CNCbl contains a molecule of cyanide.
The body must convert CNCbl into AdoCbl and MeCbl before using it.
Others suggest that CNCbl is the best choice for most people because it is the most stable form, it has been well studied and proven to increase vitamin B12 status, it is the most common, and least expensive.

Let’s examine the claims in favor of the co-enzyme forms.


The safety of CNCbl has raised concerns due to the fact that cyanide is a component of CNCbl, and the cyanide molecule is removed from CNCbl when used by the body’s cells. Cyanide is also found in many fruits and vegetables and so humans are always ingesting small amounts of cyanide, and like in most fruits and vegetables, the amount of cyanide in CNCbl is considered to be physiologically insignificant.

Continue to read this article on

Ein guter Eintrag auf einem deutschen veganen Messageboard zum Thema Vitamin B12, die vegane Ernährung und Methylcobalamin:


Habe ich mal runterschrieben (viel Copy & Paste:-) ) um, wenn wieder mal das “Argument” aufkommt, schnell Antworten zu können.
Kritik & Verbesserung erwünscht!

Ein “Argumentation” gegen den Veganismus ist häufig die Aussage, dass eine vegane Ernährung nicht natürlich und ungesund wäre und man Vitaminpillen nehmen müsste.
Dies ist nicht der Fall.
Ernährt man sich vegan, muss man nur ein Vitamin im Auge behalten. Das Vitamin B12.
Vitamin B12 ist sehr wichtig um Blut und Nerven gesund zu erhalten. Es wird jedoch weder von Pflanzen, noch von Tieren hergestellt, sondern von Mikroorganismen. Durch eine verbesserte Hygiene und moderne Produktionsprozesse werden jedoch die B12 erzeugenden Bakterien zerstören.
Unsere verstärkte Hygiene in der modernen Zivilisation ist also dafür verantwortlich, dass eine rein pflanzliche Ernährung kein Vitamin B12 beinhaltet.
Würden wir, wie unseren nahen Verwandten die Menschenaffen unsere Lebensmittel ungereinigt vom Boden essen und keine Hygiene nach dem Stuhlgang betreiben, müssten wir uns keine Gedanken über einen Mangel machen (Dies soll kein Ansporn sein Dreck bzw. ungereinigte Lebensmittel zu essen, das ist ungesund!).
Ein Tribut unserer modernen Gesellschaft ist demnach die Notwendigkeit der Einnahme von Vitamin B12.
Tierische Lebensmittel enthalten Vitamin B12 weil die Bakterien das Vitamin im Darm der Tiere produzieren.
Dies ist aber auch nur dann der Fall, wenn die Tiere aus “artgerechter” Haltung stammen. Vitamin B 12 wird ausschließlich von einer gesunden Darmflora der Tiere gebildet. In der Massentierhaltung ist dies durch die verfütterten Antibiotika jedoch teilweise so stark gestört, dass Fleisch aus dem Supermarkt oftmals Vitamin B12 frei ist.

Auch beim Menschen kommen diese Mikroorganismen im Darm vor und produzieren dort B12. Allerdings kann der Mensch damit seinen B12-Bedarf nur unzureichend decken.
Früher war man der Ansicht, dass der Bedarf von Vitamin B12 bei veganer Ernährung durch milchsauer vergorene Lebensmittel (Sauerkraut, Rote Bete) oder Algen gedeckt werden kann. Mittlerweile weiß man, dass es sich dabei um inaktive Vitamin B12-Analoga handelt, die vom menschlichen Stoffwechsel nicht verwertet werden und die Aufnahme von Vitamin B12 sogar behindern können.

In den Supermärkten gibt es Lebensmittel, welche mit Vitamin B12 (Cyanocobalamin) angereichert wurden (Multivitaminsäfte, Müslis, Frühstückszerealien, Sojadrinks, Soja Produkte, Softdrinks, Margarine, Traubenzucker u.v.m) womit man den Tagesbedarf decken kann.

Die WHO setzt den Tagesbedarf von Vitamin B12 auf 1 µg am Tag für Erwachsene fest.

Ein Beispiel: 200 ml angereicherte Sojamilch decken den Tagesbedarf.

Möchte man ein Vitamin B12 Präparat nutzen, so bietet sich ein flüssiges Vitamin B12 in Form von Methylcobalamin an.

Methylcobalamin wird ca. 3x mal besser vom Körper aufgenommen als Cyanocobalamin.
Denn Methylcobalamin ist bereits die bioaktive Form des Vitamin B12. Die meisten B12 Präparate oder angereicherte Lebensmittel sind aus Cyanocobalamin, welche im Körper erst in die bioaktive Form umgewandelt werden muss.
Hierbei ist der Instrinct Faktor wichtig.
Bei Methylcobalamin kann man sogar Resorptionsstörungen der Magenschleimhaut umgehen.
Also eine echte Alternative zur Spritze, da bereits die Aufnahme in der Mundschleimhaut beginnt.

Methylcobalamin ist eine effektive B12 Quelle, welche auch für Allesköstler ab dem 50zigsten Lebensjahr interessant ist, da Menschen ab 50 Jahren mehr und mehr Probleme haben B12 aus der Nahrung zu verwerten (Rückgang des Instrinct Faktor, atrophische Gastritis).

Zurück zum Thema Gesundheit.
Ja, ein rein pflanzliche Ernährung ist gesund.
Dies bestätigt Dr. Campbell, Professor für Biochemie an der Cornell University.
Campbell untersuchte in einer groß angelegten epidemiologischen Studie (“The China Study”) die Beziehung zwischen dem Verzehr von tierischen Produkten und Krankheiten. Die “The China Study” untersucht die Beziehung zwischen dem Verzehr von tierischen Erzeugnissen und Krankheiten wie Krebserkrankungen (Brust-, Prostata-, Enddarm), Diabetes, Herz-Kreislauferkrankungen, Fettleibigkeit, Autoimmunerkrankungen, Osteoporose, degenerative Gehirn-Krankheit.

Dabei entdeckte Campbell und sein Team, dass selbst geringe Mengen tierischer Produkte bereits einen signifikanten Einfluss auf chronische Erkrankungen haben. Er empfiehlt eine pflanzliche Ernährung und die Vermeidung des Konsums von Rindfleisch, Geflügel, Eiern und Milch um unterschiedlichste Krankheiten zu verhindern.

Die Autoren kommen zu dem Schluss, dass die Ergebnisse der Studie darauf hin deuten, dass je geringer der Anteil an tierischen Lebensmittel in der Nahrung ist, desto größer die gesundheitlichen Vorteile liegen, insbesondere in einem Bereich von 10% bis 0% der gesamten Kilokalorien. So ist es nicht unangemessen, davon ausgehen, dass der optimale Anteil an tierischen Lebensmitteln null sein sollte, zumindest für Personen mit einer Prädisposition für eine degenerative Erkrankung.